Todd V Show Episode 12: Why You Should Give Girls Shit Tests and How to Do It
- How to MASTER the art of shit-testing
- Learn FUNNY teasing
- STAND OUT in front of the hottest girls
- 00:00 – Intro
- 01:32 – Question: In The System, you talk about giving girls shit tests. What are the best ways to shit test a girl?
- 02:18 – Shit testing 101
- 07:09 – Use shit tests to CONTROL the frame
- 11:00 – Making her laugh
- 14:42 – Standing out to 8s, 9s and 10s
- 18:45 – Disqualifying, a game cheat code
- 23:20 – Recap
Todd: [00:00:00] So you get this like escalation of shit test where, the girl was like, well, you know, who are you? Who do you think you are? And the guy’s like, well, what makes you think you’re special enough to ask me that question? And the girl’s like, you walked over to me. And then the guy’s like, Oh yeah, you’re right.
I did. And it looks really lame. .
Hey guys, what’s up. Welcome back for the Todd V show. This is a bit of a special episode. It’ll be probably a little shorter because we’re just doing one question, but I think it’s an excellent question. I think it’s important one, because it’s an area that I see many guys, probably most guys lacking in their games.
So we’re going to get into that in just a second. But before we do, I do have a special announcement. if you followed me for any period of time, you know, I don’t do discounts on my programs. but it is coming up on Thanksgiving, which means it’s coming up on black Friday and being kind of an unusual year, figure out how you guys ended it kind of on the right note.
So we’re going to do unusual black Friday special. We’re actually doing on The system. And on Value Masterclass, which are my two kind of main digital programs that I do. Two main things, two main ways you can get coaching for me on the internet readily available. we’re doing 50% off on both of those.
Again, I never discount them and it’s just for a few days. So that said, let’s get into the question. this is from Eddy and he says in the system, you talk about giving girls shit tests. What are the best ways to shit, test a girl. So thank you, Eddy, for that question. I think it is an important one because.
All of the guys that I’ve seen do game, I’d say upwards of 90% of guys are on the receiving end of shit tests almost always, and are not on the giving end very often. And then the few that are on the giving end are oftentimes doing it wrong. So this is a very unique skill in terms of it’s not being used often, but it’s not a difficult skill.
It’s not a hard thing to do. It’s just something that isn’t done. And for that reason, it’s something that can set you apart massively very, very quickly. It can give you a lot of value and make you very, you know, special in relation to other guys, very, very easily. So let’s talk about shit us in order to know how to give a shit test to a girl.
The first thing you need to know is what is a shit test, actually. Okay. What does a shit test? And I want to start off with what a shit test is not. So a shit test is not an insult. It’s very, very important. “You’re ugly” is not a shit test. At least maybe it’s under some very extraordinary circumstances when like there’s a wink and you know, she you’ve already told the girl she’s pretty other times or something like that, maybe, but, in general, you’re ugly as an insult, not a shit test.
“You’re a terrible human being and have no moral value”, you know, whatever, anything like that. A flat-out insult is not a shit test on any level. Okay. A shit test is, it’s more subtle than that. So, there’s, I’ve talked to in, in, I think in the previous podcast, I talked about, denotation versus connotation, which is denotation is the literal meaning of the word, what it is.
It means in, by the dictionary, by the book and then connotation is how it’s taken culturally or how it’s taken in context, what it means aside from the literal meaning. So ideally a shit test is where you’re giving a girl a hard time, more on the connotation than on the denotation. Right. So, I’ll give you an example of some kind of some, some statements or some phrases that have a little like hint of a shit test in them.
So you can kind of get, get a, an idea. And oftentimes a shit test will be phrased as though it’s a compliment or as though it’s as though it’s neutral, but it’ll have just a little bit of sting in the tail. So, I, I knew a guy who had pretty good game back in the day and his opener or his style of opener, which was a kind of a shit test on the opener.
A bit of a tease on the opener. he would comment on something, the girl was wearing something in our fashion that, Hey, I like that sweater. I love that. You’re going to try to bring the ’80s back. Right. and so he’s kind of commenting that, the sweater’s not exactly fashionable to the decade.
It’s not exactly up to, up to the moment and the effect this is going to have oftentimes is to make the girl a little insecure even though you’re saying literally I like that sweater. That’s a cool sweater, but the way you’re saying it is, you know, that it’s because it’s reminded me of the ’80s or because it’s retro.
And if that wasn’t the girl’s intention, if she was trying to be modern and fashionable, and she reminded you of the ’80s, then that’s something that could, could be a shit test. Okay. now that’s, that’s not technically as direct of a shit test in the sense of you’re you’re actively giving a girl shit that’s, you could call that more of a tease or more of almost a neg or something like that.
But it, it has that nature where it’s not a direct insult and that’s the key thing I want to get across to you in shit tests. If you take, for example, some of the shit tests that girls give to guys, they’re not flat out saying the insult, they’re just implying the insults. So if a girl gives a shit test, like, do you say that’s all the girls, right?
If the girl had said, “Do you say that to all the girls? Cause if you do, that would be lame and weird and creepy”. That would be an insult. But when she says, “Do say that to all the girls?”, she’s not saying that it’s bad. It’s implied by her tone or it’s implied by the context, or it’s implied by the social meaning around a guy that would say the same thing to every girl and how that might be interpreted societaly, but she’s not flat out saying it.
And it’s the same thing when you give a girl a challenge. Right. So if you do, you know, question a girl. On, you know, whether she has a particular credential or not, or, or something like that. Like, did you w you know, you did it, you went to college, right? Something like that. Just a little thing like that.
That’s a very minor shit test. but you’re not saying you didn’t go to college. You idiot. You’re saying you went to college, right? You’re putting them on the spot, you’re questioning them and whether or not they went to college, this is very important. It’s not like you’re attacking them. If they didn’t or praising them, if they did whether or not they did go to college, they’re going to feel probably an instinct, probably an urge to qualify themselves to, if they didn’t go to college, they may feel an urge to explain to you why they didn’t.
That like, it’s not because they weren’t smart and they were doing something else, job wise or this and that and the other, or because they had to like, you know, help their family through XYZ situation, et cetera. So they may, they may feel the need to give an explanation or excuse. I qualify themselves to, if they did go to college, they may make a point of saying, yeah, of course I went to college and this and this and this, and then even go further and try and tell you that they went to a good college or they did really well and got good grades.
Which again, they’re qualifying themselves too. Okay. So what is a shit test? Fundamentally one, it’s not an insult too, though. It’s a statement that puts the girl on the spot and encourages her to potentially qualify herself. Okay. That’s a very, very important thing. One other thing is shit test can be, and this kind of gets to the, the stereotypical most kind of like, like pristine, like.
Like the classic shit test and game though, the ones you, you you’ve heard a million times and you love them because they work every time, even though you’ve heard them a million times, what these will be on top of being a subtle thing, that’s going to maybe make the girl qualify is they will actually be a frame control statement or a frame control adjustment. So something along the lines of, you and I would not get along has a little bit, it has, it will obviously put her on the spot and make her want to qualify. Why wouldn’t we get along? I get along with everybody, et cetera, et cetera. So it has that nature to it, but it also has the nature that, because you’ve said to her that you and she wouldn’t get along, you’re kind of adopting a position of being the higher status person, because typically the higher status person is deciding whether you’re going to get along. The lower status person is just crossing their fingers and hoping you get along so they can have a new high value friends.
So, by taking that position by putting yourself at a more high status position within the hierarchy of the conversation, you’re actually asserting some level of frame control as well. And I’ve kind of given a few different definitions of chit-chat tests here. And the reason is that there are a lot of things that are, some are like precisely, exactly shit tests.
Some are kind of shit tests and some kind of serve the purpose of shit tests. Okay. So what is, again, the purpose of shit test? The purpose of shit test is to kind of keep the girl on her toes. Right. Potentially kind of either get the girl to want to open up and talk to explain thing or ideally to qualify to you.
And it’s even better, like in an ideal sense, if it’s also asserting a frame and asserting a frame, hopefully that’s a useful frame to you. A frame that puts you in a high value position, a friend that if true would lead to a better interaction, lead to sex, lead to other good frames and events in the future.
So that’s what an ideal shit test is. So if you do want to give these shit tests, What should you do? Probably the first and most overarching thing you can do is have a good frame. You want to understand the good frames in game frames like that you are an attractive person, right? And that girls typically like you, frames like that, you are, you know, busy and have a cool life.
And that if a girl were to date you or be part of that life, it would be improving her life. Frames like that. Maybe you’re interested enough in a girl to talk to her and get to know her, but you’re not completely one over super easily. You’re not that easily impressed because, you know, Ideally, because of the reason what you’re implying is that, that you’ve met other girls, you have other options.
You’ve done well with girls in the past. And so you’re not overly impressed without the girl actually doing something impressive. So that’s another good frame. And the reason I say it’s good to start with frame is because many of the best shit tests, come from that frame. And many of the best shit tests don’t even have to be overt.
Precise shit test. As in I’m doing this one specific shit test at this, this moment just adopting that frame is sort of like a big shit test to the girl, right? It’s it’s a big sort of, opportunity for her to qualify herself a big opportunity for her to try and impress you a big opportunity for her to try and win you over, et cetera.
So, having the right frame is probably the absolute best start. And the second thing that’s going to be very helpful in shut tests because they’re not insults. And the other thing is I haven’t mentioned this, but they shouldn’t be reactive. Right. So for example, a lot of guys, what they’ll do is they’ll give a shit test back to a girl, giving a shit test, right?
So you get this like escalation of shit test where, the girl was like, well, you know, who are you? Who do you think you are? And the guy’s like, well, what makes you think you’re special enough to ask me that question? And the girl’s like, you walked over to me. And then the guy’s like, Oh yeah, you’re right.
I did. And it looks really lame. or where’s she at? It just keeps escalating and escalating. It’s like, I hate you. No, I hate you more. No, I hit you. Well, my, my parents hate your parents and my grandparents and my dad and it just it’s. It’s no good. Okay. so this reactivity, if it comes off that you’re doing it defensively, are you doing it in reaction to something?
She said, that’s not going to be very effective. So those are the two things are shit, shit, shit. Test. Shouldn’t be one insulting. It shouldn’t be that and two should not be defensive. so the second thing that you can do to do shit tests in the right way and have good shit tests is to come from a place of good humor to come from a place of enjoying the conversation and also kind of being amused by the girl.
Right. And also non-negative and non, non, not like not insulting towards the girl with your, your frame or your outlook as well. The way I like to look at it is, imagine if. imagine there’s a, there’s a few different frames you can use and I’ll give you a few. one is, imagine if this girl is someone who you just know is had a crush on you for a super, super long time.
And so while you may even like them, and while you may even be interested in them as well, you are not at all worried about how they’re perceiving you because you know, you’re certain that they like you and it’s, it’s not really a question. And so if they do say something negative, they do something, say something that could be troubling or whatever, you just don’t take them that seriously.
You’re not mean to them. You don’t dislike them. You’re not trying to like destroy their self-esteem, anything like that. You just don’t take them that seriously. Another frame that’s similar to this or another, that might make even more sense to you is, oftentimes take the frame of, imagine if you had like, kind of an annoying little niece, right?
So, you know, your, your niece, hopefully as someone you care about, she’s a family member. Hopefully she’s a good person. Who’s, who’s, you know, you, you want good things for her, a lot more than bad things for her. so you have positive intentions towards her, but that said you just don’t take her that seriously.
Cause she’s just a little kid. Right. And, and if you treat the girl in the same way, as in like, Oh, you’re sweet. You’re nice. I want good things for you. I don’t want anything bad for you. I wouldn’t want to insult you, but like, look, I’m the grownup here. You’re kind of, you know, you’re the silly little kid in this interaction.
and if you, if you take that frame, you’re going to come from a place of being good humor. You’re not going to be particularly reactive. And you’re also going to be very open to, to teasing a girl. Right? A lot of guys can tease girls when they don’t care about the outcome. A lot of guys have this phenomenon of, you know, when they’re not that into the girl, when the girl is what they consider to be a six or a seven, there are suddenly super charismatic and super witty, and they can tease them and all this kind of stuff.
And they start talking to a girl, they consider a nine or a 10, and all of a sudden they get like, you know, they’re like a deer in the headlights, like, Oh, I better not mess it up. And ironically, if they could just talk to that nine or 10, the way they talked to the six or seven, it would solve most of the problems they’re having with gaming and nine or 10, there are obviously some value issues and there are some value adjustments and blueprint adjustments and stuff like that.
So a lot of this stuff, by the way that I talk about in, in value masterclass, for example, although those, those, those. Higher tier adjustments on top of, having the right frame and stuff like that. But for the most part, if you had the right frame, you’d be, you know, a decent percentage, 70, 80% of the way there.
And that’s the majority of it is coming from this frame that you don’t take them super seriously. Okay. So now what do you have? You have a good frame and a good outlook, right? You have a frame that you’re high value in, in whatever way or that, that the girl would be lucky to be with you or her life would be enhanced by being with you.
That’s a start. Second thing is you’re in good humor. You’re finding amusements in the conversation in general, and you’re not overly concerned with perception or outcome. That’s what we’re going to be coming from. From there. Probably naturally, you’re going to do a lot of things that are maybe subtle shit tests or not even like, not even shit test, but you’re, again, I mentioned having a frame can already be a shit test or having that attitude is already an implied shit test in some way.
And you may not even need a lot of shit tests if you’re coming from those places. But if you want to go one step further and especially on maybe a cold approach situation or when you’ve just met a girl and she doesn’t know that much about you and you want to set yourself apart quickly, You may need to go one step further, which is to instigate just a little bit to do something that’s polarizing and potentially can get a reaction.
I’ll give you an example of this, that isn’t directly shit test, but it relates to the concept. and so one thing I like to do a lot of times, with, with very, very hot girls, even before I’ve necessarily shown much premise, or even before I’ve given something like an overt shit test. What I like to do actually is use a little bit of inappropriate or impolite language just in their presence or to them ahead of times, because with really hot girls, oftentimes they are so used to guys walking on eggshells that even a guy swearing in front of them or being impolite in front of them is enough to like be outside of their normal reality or be an a non-normal event for them.
so I’ll give you an example. You may notice I’m wearing black right now. A lot of times when I go out, I also wear black, which you may have noticed from, from some of my infields and whatnot. The funny thing with that, and I wear t-shirts a lot too. So funny thing with that is a lot of times in bars.
The staff at the bar will wear black. T-shirts, it’s a pretty common sort of general generic bar attire that that will be worn. So a lot of times girls will mistake me as being part of the bar staff. And this, this is even enhanced by the fact that a lot of times I’m coaching a student. So I’m kind of like he’s in set.
I’m watching. And it looks like I’m kind of just standing around the bar doing nothing, but maybe I’m checking my phone sometimes. Or maybe I’m just like leaning against the pole, trying to not be, you know, in the way and not draw a lot of attention to myself while I watch my student game. And while I give him, you know, get close so I can critique them and stuff like that.
So a lot of times what will happen with all this is that the girl will see me and she’ll think I work at the bar and she’ll ask me a type of question that someone might ask someone who works at the bar, like where’s the bathroom, or do you have this kind of drink here or something like that. Right. And most guys respond to this from a hot girl.
Oh no, I’m sorry. I don’t, I don’t work here, but like I can check for you or, no, I think the bathroom is over there and just either something literal or something highly qualifying or something nervous or reactive or whatever. What I like to do. And it’s different words. Every time just depends on the moment.
But a lot of times I like to do something along the lines of what, why the fuck are you asking me? So what the fuck? Right. Something like that. and then, and then she’ll be like, wait, wait, wait, I’ll be like, I’m just fucking with you. I’m like, hi, nice to meet you. I’m Todd, et cetera. but the fact that I, you know, or sometimes I’m like, wait, do I fucking look like I work here?
Jesus woman get, get up. Right. and then obviously that’s a little over the top. It’s a little bit like harsh. And so you can back down, you can be like, I’m just kidding. Whatever, especially if she like looks offended or if she seems surprised, sometimes they’ll even get apologetic, which is really funny.
He’s like, I’m kidding. You don’t have to apologize. and that’s great when that happens, but the fact of the matter is the fact that I did say something impolite that I did take a social risk right away, in a way that seems kind of, unscripted and seems spur of the moment because it was in response to her question.
It conveys a lot of things about me. It conveys, one that I’m not overly emotionally affected by her in particular. But two, it conveys that I’m willing to be polarizing life in general. It conveys that I’m, I’ve gotten through life without being polite. And so it’s something that’s going to immediately boost my value even before we’ve really had much of an interaction and it’s going to make anything else I say, come off as more, honest and legitimate because that, that first sentence, that first unconscious sentence out of my mouth when I wasn’t trying, when it just came spur of the moment, because that was so nonreactive and it clearly, I didn’t give a shit what she thought about me.
Then it’s going to be assumed that I don’t give a shit what she thinks about me throughout the duration of the interaction. and so just swearing a little bit is instigating a bit. and it also shows that that willingness to, to, to offend if necessary, not that you’re okay. Here’s a very important thing about offending.
Okay. You do not want to try to offend a girl, please, please, please do not go try and offend girls you’ll succeed. And you also failed miserably at gained by doing it. Okay. Do not try to offend girls, however, do not try not to offend girls either. Okay. So don’t go out of your way or adjust your behavior to be inoffensive, but also please do not adjust your favor or behavior.
Sorry to be offensive. That’s a terrible idea. And that comes off as insulting reactive, all these things that we set a shit test, shouldn’t be. Okay. So, true in general and game, but also especially true in giving girl shit. now the, one of the best types of shit testers are going to come around to, which has all of these different elements to it.
And one of my absolute favorites. Is what I call a disqualifier, right. And a disqualifier. it can be either a pure disqualifier. It can be a push-pull. They’re, they’re, they’re relatively similar, but a disqualifier is any indication that it might not work out between you and the girl or any indication that sex won’t happen or any indication that potentially you’re not interested.
Again, the hotter, the girl, the better this is going to work because hotter girls are not accustomed to having guys disqualify them. They’re used to having guys, you know, kiss their ass and try and get their attention all the time. but it’s going to work across the board with just about every girl. and you can do this in again, harsher and less harsh weights.
So for example, like. Yeah, you just blew it, girl. That’s pretty, that’s a, that’s a very, kind of a harsh disqualifier, right? A less harsh. Won’t be like easy. If you keep that up, I might stop liking you so much. Right. Which is actually, it has a little disqualifier, but it’s actually mostly complimentary, mostly positive because you’re indicating that you did like them a lot.
Either one is indicating that they did something that turned you off in some way, but one is indicating it’s super, like it’s as much more serious and it doesn’t, it’s not counterbalanced by a positive. The other one is counterbalanced by a positive and it’s much more playful, but either one, just the fact that you’re willing to give a disqualifier, it works pretty well.
The other thing you should do it. So one, one really good form of shit. Test is disqualifiers. Anything you can do that says not you’re a bad person, not anything insulting like that. But just, we might not get along. Notice the difference between you’re a bad person and you and I might not get along. Right.
There are plenty of wonderful people in the world who I might not get along with, but calling them a bad person would be insulting saying we might not get along. It’s just, you know, it’s just saying not everybody’s compatible with everybody. It’s not a big deal. Okay. It’s very, very important that distinction not insulting, just teasing.
And then the other thing that I really do recommend as a format for, for, for shit testing is anytime a girl does something unusual or embarrassing, or that is, that just really draws attention. You can give them. You can tease them about it. You can give them a little bit of a hard time about it.
And again, this can be in a whole spectrum of levels. It can be very lightly, clearly kidding, where it’s, it’s just like tongue in cheek and it’s just almost more friendly than anything, but at least you’re being playful. At least you’re willing to give them a little bit of a hard time, all the way to flat out, like where they get that little feeling in the pit of their stomach.
Like, they’re really just lost your city, the whole gradient there. But the whole point is when a girl does something silly or unusual. Give her a little bit of shit about it, and this can be something as, as simple as like misspeaking. Right. So if the girl says, I literally just, I literally just did something that that’s not literal.
I was just funny that I can’t think of an example for that. but you help people misuse the word literally. if you could say, that’d be like, wow, I’m glad you didn’t figure this figuratively. Do it. Cause that would be weird. Right? That’s a very minor, kind of a tease. It’s just taking, taking a word where they misspoke.
It’s not highly personal, anything like that, but it’s just some little thing they did say a girl like drop something or, or, Spill something or whatever. you can tease them about being klutzy, which again is not super personal. This is a one-time one-off event being klutzy does not reflect on your character.
You, nobody goes to hell for being klutzy. Right? So, the point is, there’s lots of these opportunities and most guys just miss them. Most guys don’t do anything with them. And again, you should be calibrated. You should be in some cases saying it very playfully in some cases saying a lot harsher and in some cases not even saying it right, you don’t have to take every single opportunity that comes your way, but you need to be taking some and most guys take almost none.
Right? So a funny little exercise or a fun little exercise I do with, with students, whenever they record infield video infield audio for me, which, you know, a lot of students do that for me when we do consultations and whatnot. Is, sometimes they’re too platonic. They’re having trouble making it man-to-woman or they’re having trouble giving shit tests.
So they end up with this very boring, dry conversation. And what I will do is I will stop the tape after almost every single thing the girl says and I’ll stop. And I’ll give an example where sometimes oftentimes two or three different examples of something you could say to tease the girl off what you just said.
Point being that almost after almost every single thing the girl says, if you’re in the mindset of trying to tease, there is a tease available. If not multiple tease is potentially available. So they’re always available. And I always caution my students. Don’t actually literally tease them after every sentence they say, but just be aware that there is one available to you.
There is an opportunity to tease them after every single one. So there’s absolutely no scarcity. And if you just. Like train yourself to recognize it. Then instead of saying it every single time, you can sit back and wait for the really good ones and then just throw in a few good jabs here and there. But it’s very important that it not be zero is very, very important that there be some teasing.
There’d be some flirting. There’d be some giving the girl shit during the interaction. Okay. So again, to recap, one shit tests are important, right? If you’re not giving a girl shit, you are going to be very, very boring, too. You have an opportunity to give a girl shit after just about every sentence now, how do you go about giving good shit tests?
Well, first thing is it comes from your frame. It comes from your kind of how you’re positioning yourself in the interaction and oftentimes the frame itself. And just carrying yourself a certain way and, and interacting in that way can be an inherit shit test. The next is, it comes from the vibe and the attitude, right?
It comes from, not taking her too seriously, being lighthearted, having fun, having a playful notion about the interaction rather than being super serious and super reactive and looking for reactions and that kind of stuff. And then the final bit is to be a bit instigating, but I’ll come full circle and say again, as final, the first thing I said, which is that shit tests are not insults.
So while you do want to instigate. You do not want to insult a good standard. Is this if a girl ever called you out on a shit test and said, that was mean you should be able to plausibly say no, actually it was a compliment because this, or actually no, I thought it was really nice because this, there should be a plausible way because it is framed as while there is that barb, that little sting in the tail, it is more positive than negative and you at least have that out.
You should always have that out of being socially correct when giving a shit test. And that is the big difference between a shit test and insult on a fundamental level. So that gives you a good understanding of what shit tests are, how to come up with shit tests, where shit tests come from, not only in terms of the actual words, but in terms of the frame and the context of the interaction, as well as, you know, different types of shit tests, you disqualifiers push-pulls, et cetera.
So, I think it was a quite a long answer to that question. And I think hopefully a good one that that should help you guys out a lot. but the biggest takeaway is play with this, do more shit tests. Almost every guy does too few and don’t even think of it as a shit test. Think of it as teasing a girl, giving her a hard time.
Cause a lot of shit tests don’t have to be some exact scripted shit test. As I’ve mentioned. All right. so with that said, we’re going to wrap the question, but I do want to remind you once again that, we do have that 50% off sale on The System and on Value Masterclass, it’s just for black Friday and a few days after.
So get it soon. It’s not going to last long and we don’t do discounts often. Again, the websites for that, our systembytodd.com and toddvmasterclass.com. Go check those out. Hopefully, I’ll see you inside those programs and hopefully I will see you on the next episode. So thanks again for tuning in. Oh, and by the way, one last thing, you can submit your questions at [email protected] toddvdating.com.
Forget to say, forgot to say that during this episode, but it is important because I do use your questions. So check out those programs, check out the next podcast and send in your questions. Take care, till next time.